Btw how come there are so many translation liberties in the IY eps? I mean some of the sentences could be rendered closer to the direct translation without really detracting. That have something to with editors prerogative? Just wondering btw so dont need to whomp my ass out of the forum.

Incidentally, dont take me 2 seriously since u guys ARE working on it unlike moi.

...

I'm gonna let accela deal with this one, because I'm probably not the right person to get started on it right now ;; Suffice it to say that your suggestion has been taken into consideration and we will try to stick a little closer to the literal translation when applicable. After all, what am I if not everyone's bitch?

Well, there are people who agree with you on the "direct translation" issue. Personally, I think more direct translations are bad for a couple of reasons.

First, the meaning of a sentence is not just the sum of the meaning of its parts. It's about 10% "direct" meaning of words and about 90% the "indirect" implications and connotations of those words together. When you start translating directly, you lose a large part of the original meaning. Any special implications of the words that aren't present in english: gone. If the sentence is a parable, a metaphor, an idiom, etc: forget about it. Take for example the following line (not from Inuyasha). One character says to another:

Hajimemashite...janai ne."

Translating the line directly the way you normally translate "hajimemashite" results in:

"Nice to meet you...or not."

Sure, this sounds like it could be a legitimate translation - it makes sense, it's grammatically correct, and it even fits the context. But it's wrong. It completely misses the connotation of "hajimemashite." You normally only use that word when first meeting someone. Thus the implication of this line (which is completely lost in the English and very present in the Japanese) is that the characters have met before. Thus it is better translated as something along the lines of:

"Nice to meet you...or have we met before?"

Another problem with direct translation is that often the meaning of a Japanese word cannot be represented directly in one English word. Take for example, Inuyasha or Kouga's rudeness. They often use contractions and conjugated forms of verbs that only someone more "uncooth" would use. This concept doesn't really exist in English. You can't really conjugate "give" to some "rude" or "angry" form. The only way to get these concepts across is by wording the whole phrase or sentence properly. This sometimes means departing from the "direct" meaning of the sentence but in my opinion it results in a more accurate translation. Like I said before, "direct" meaning is a pretty small part of the whole meaning.

Well this got long so I'll stop now.

one of the reasons i have so much trouble with Recca!~

...that and the fact that i suck at translation!

Those arent the kind of sentences I mean. I know there are more than enough problems in bringing the true meaning of the sentence into another language. But there are still a few places where a translation closer to the japanese line would benefit. Without pointing out specific instances its hard to get my meaning across. Mostly these are places where a closer translation brings the flavor across, and the cultural notes that fgf does at the start of the IY are indicative of the fact that we all want to bring that little jap culture in.

One example i rememer off hand is ep 111
Jaken refers to Sesshomaru as Sesshomaru-sama at almost any instance in the series and the episode. I think the subs read as 'master'. It could be simply my personal choice, but I just feel that small instances (insignificant in comparison to the bigger picture) could be made better.

Of course this whole discussion is an excercise in shooting my own foot, since I'd probably have to get involved in the subbing process and at this point in time Im trying to cut down on all things extra in life.

I guess I just don't see how subbing the name would be any more accurate than using some other word to refer to Sesshoumaru. The referent is the same so the meaning of the sentence remains the same.

The other thing to consider is that in Japanese you refer to people by name much more often than in English. So for a lot of those instances of "Sesshoumaru-sama," it would be just plain weird to not use some other word like "Master" or "Lord."

If you can come up with any other examples you think could better demonstrate your point, post them. Cause now I'm curious

Just as a comment on the translations from a language standpoint, I really like the translation notes you guys do at the beginning since I believe there are many words in other languages where a simple synonym just doesn't exist. For example, I've seen "miko" translated as temple maiden, priestess and white-magic user all of which apply but aren't complete as a translation. Rather than see these not quite accurate(but still helpful) translations used throughout the episode, I think a note at the beginning and then direct quotations during the episode would be best. That way people might pick up what it actually means through context with some help from the note at the beginning. For example, I liked how the words daimyou and shogun were not translated in 110 since there really is no good direct translation for them. The issue of which words not to translate I'm sure comes up and not knowing Japanese I can't really comment on that. Anyways, I don't know if using more notes would make the translators lives easier or harder, plus the rest of your adoring fan-base might not agree with me. However, I like the notes and hope you keep it up!

I love the notes- but i stop at historic markers on the highway.

Thank you, Raz. We have fights--or at least, very *heated debate*--over these things, so it's glad to see some people like them ^^

It really IS hard deciding what needs to be left in Japanese. To be honest, I'm not entirely happy with translating "youkai" or "hanyou"--I feel that "demon" has too many Christian connotations. But, from what fansubs we'd seen, that tends to be the accepted terminology. If I were starting at the beginning of the series, there'd be a giant translation note and it would be probably not be translated from there on out. However, since it seemed that the fans were sort of divided--some knew the Japanese word, some didn't--we went with "demon" to be safe. And that's brought us a lot of flak but hey--at least we'll stay consistent with our predecessors.

But the reason we do translate a lot of things we do is that we firmly believe in making sense in English of as much of the episode as is reasonable. I think a lot of hard-core fans SERIOUSLY overestimate most people's ability to understand the Japanese terms, especially if they don't show up quite as often. I've seen people who greatly enjoy the series STILL have problems understanding "Youkai" and "hanyou" after 80+ episodes--simply because the word is so "foreign" it doesn't register as easily. And the audience isn't just English-speaking 20-something's either: there are middle-aged fans, very young fans, English-as-a-second-language fans...hell, I know a 78 year old woman who really enjoys Inuyasha! It's for those people that we try to translate things as best we can without resorting to a Japanese word every other second. As much as I'd love to use "miko", "youki", and every single name suffix on the planet, it's sometimes just unreasonable.

And honestly, it's not always appropriate to leave *everything* exactly the way it is. The "-sama" that Jaken affixes to Sesshoumaru's name, for example, refers to their relative social positions--in this case, a master/servant relationship. Personally I think that not referring to this at least occasionally ends up losing the very connotation you mean to preserve. -sama really doesn't mean batshit to the majority of English speakers, even with a translation note. You might have the translation note in the back of your head, but it's more immediate when you get a reminder like "Forgive me, master!" or "Forgive me, lord!" or the like.

That's just my stance though, and I know some people disagree with it. We do take recommendations into consideration, and sometimes things change a bit--we'll try to vary the naming a little more next time. Live and learn. But the hardest thing to do is pick something and stick with it...you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time ^_~

Besides, the more Japanese words we leave in the more likely I'll see them abused in bad fanfic...and we wouldn't want that, would we? (j/k)

Good, I'm glad they were appreciated - I could've (and have had to for classes) written essays on what a daimyou and shogun were. Cramming it into a translation note or two was interesting ;;

The purpose of subbing is to make the anime as English-speaking friendly as possible without losing the meaning of the original Japanese. There has to be a balance and of course you can't make everyone happy all of the time. However, the fact that 3700 copies of your version of ep. 111 and 4300 copies of ep 110 have been downloaded since FRIDAY :shock: is proof that lots of people like the way you are doing things.

P.S.: Accela; I've always hated those types of essays since the whole point of learning a word through context is that it is hard to explain what it means...especially historical terms...bleh!

No one here have the right to complain about the subbing.
It's Inuyasha, and we get to see it, be happy!
I get pretty P.O'd with subbings sometimes too,
but it's pretty mean to tell others off...
am moi talking about not being mean...?
Anyways, I'm just going on about this...
do whatever you want, idiots, I don't care.

I did it again, I called you idiots.
But you DO know it means that I like ya'll.

he heh... soon I'll rule the word... (what the?)

Just one more thought on the subject...

Translating isn't just taking what someone said and repeating it. You essentially have to rewrite the script. Granted, the original script provides the meaning to convey, and a rough guideline for how to say it, but ultimately the wording is up to the translator. So inevitably a translator will add their own personal touch or style to the script, whether they want to or not. This doesn't change the meaning of the lines, but it does certainly effect their feel. And while we do our best to keep as true to the original feel as possible, it's inevitable that some things may work slightly different.

When it comes down to it, it's flat out impossible to provide a perfect translation between two natural languages. Anyone looking for that needs to go learn Japanese ^_~

NANI????
Such a busy thread and i have said a single thing on it
hmmmmm... what can i say...???? *scraching my ear* (eeeeek) (no i didnt)

well... noone really should complain... especially about such details...

1. those people could very much rather sit down watch the episodes themselves than giving them to us...

2. we dont pay

3. I DONT SEE AnYTHING WRONG

And as a side note, this can also lead to interesting arguments. I grew up around people who use lots of very peculiar colloquialisms, and I can't count the number of times the FgF editors have yelled at me for using "bizarre English" that I find perfectly normal. Yet another problem with translation...sometimes you even have to translate English into English ^_~

Quick question though: Who else agrees with me that "shooting your mouth off" is the same thing as "running your mouth"? I think they're both equally as valid

[quote="bakadeshiQuick question though: Who else agrees with me that "shooting your mouth off" is the same thing as "running your mouth"? I think they're both equally as valid [/quote]

They're both valid idioms, but they mean different things. "running your mouth" is just talking on and on and on while "shooting your mouth off" is kind of like "putting your foot in your mouth", but with a harsher tone. Like you went and said something really stupid really fast before you could think about it. Afterwards you might even feel "sheepish"

Watashi wa wakarimasen.

Demo omoshiroi desu.

Watashi wa baka desu.

Ja mata

Hmmm.....I don't know what the previous post said but I think that "shooting your mouth off" and "running your mouth" are closer in meaning than accela thinks, although I don't believe they are quite identical. (Straddling the fence can be a dangerous position.... :roll: ) It has to do with how I've heard them used. Almost no one says, "whoops, guess I shot my mouth off", it usually more of a "Now don't go shooting your mouth off 'round town, ya'hear?" where it means you shouldn't go around talking too much, saying the wrong thing, not quite like "putting your foot in your mouth" but more like saying something that other people don't want you to say.
"Running your mouth" definitely just means talking too much in general, but can apply to when people don't want you to say something in particular. However, the beautiful part about language is that words can mean whatever you want them to mean, that's how idioms get started anyways...

Hrm, hadn't thought of it like that before...although where I came from they really were used almost the same way ;; I suppose there is a slight difference in that "running your mouth" was always used with a topic--it was like "shooting your mouth off" but about something specific. "Don't you go running your mouth about that! Aunt B worked very hard making that sweater for you, you can't complain about the color." sort of thing.

What I really wish I'd done was write down all the things my grandfather said. He had a real way with words, I suppose you could say. "Slicker than snot on a doorknob" was one of my favorites...along with "That woman...time means about as much to her as it does to yer average fat-hog." ^^

[Edit: By the way, Raziel, can I officially Bear Your Child? So far you've managed to be one of the few people here who responds intelligently to posts...I swear, every thread you've started posting in has gotten loads more focused and intelligent. AND you can spell. Hehe...better watch out, accela! You've got a rival for my Undying Affection ^_~]

*Goes through all of Raziel's posts and "corrects" the spelling and grammar ^_~*

'sok, Baka. By the looks of Raziel's avatar, you've got a rival for Maru as your own personal plaything

:shock: :shock: Oh my! I don't want any trouble! But I appreciate the compliment. I like this forum a lot but as I'm sure a lot of you have noticed, things get off track pretty quickly, usually degenerating into a discussion of Sesshoumaru-sama vs. everyone else. However, there are some people with good brains out there( :arrow: Baka and Accela esp. so far) and I'm just trying to get some intelligent discussions out of them!

*Goes back to forums looking for more brains...*

Just wanted to make a small suggestion about the translation notes - it's great that you do it and it certainly adds value to the overall quality of the release (other groups do this too, of course, particularly Seichi with their Loki fansubs), but ever considered shortening the duration?

Since the translation notes normally use still images, there's nothing stopping the viewer from simply pausing to read the notes before skipping ahead to the next, rather than having to wait it out according to some predetermined duration. Fast readers end up waiting, and slow readers end up having to pause anyway. Shortening it may also help to reduce the filesize somewhat, won't it (admittedly not by much)?

Just a suggestion.

Sandrock

Well, we'd thought about this, but the main reason we decided against it was that a lot of viewers find it annoying We used to do "inline" translation notes (blurbs at the top of the screen) and got reports that it was rather annoying: for one, divx files don't "rewind" very well, so if someone missed reading the note he/she would have to fight with their divx player to rewind. And not everybody wants to pause the action to read stuff either: a lot of people would skip the notes. That's usually okay, since some of the notes are just cultural background, but in some cases it might make certain terms or scenes difficult to understand. So in general, our policy is to leave the "long notes"--if you dislike them, it's relatively easy to fast-forward (at least, compared to rewinding a divx stream).

On an unrelated note, we're trying to compile a more detailed list of translation notes for the website. Would anyone be interested in this sort of thing?

I'd love to have some more reference. But I'm weird. I really appreciate everything fangirlfriday does- the translations, the help on MIRC, the notes.

Bakadesh,

Yes! I think that is a wonderful idea. Would it be like a Japanese to English translation of common phrases and words that are used in the Inu series? Even if it does not include the translations, I think the cultural notes would be a great addition to your website!