Here's my opinion about untranslated honorifics...

Please translate all the honorifics. I am so getting a little frustrated of certain fansubbers not translating honorifics. Pretty much the most excusable reason, is because people who don't know Japanese that would want to learn Japanese, could learn more words. But what if the watches aren't interested learning Japanese? What if they don't really care much about learning Japanese, but just want to watch the anime? And yes... even though I do appreciate the people would make a tiny translation note on what that certain honorific means, but sadly, they don't keep it up there enough for people to read it on time. Dude, not everyone can read fast, I hope you know >_< Pretty much, the only things that I do understand that people don't translate are the names of characters, and name of certain food dishes. That is very understandable.

But for the rest, please... translate honorifics. When I watched Inu Yasha fansubbed with my younger sister Jessica, she would always ask me what that certain untranslated honorific means. Although I would gladly tell her, but it's making me mad a bit that I have to do it during the showings. This is pretty much one of the reasons why I would mostly prefer to watch anime professionaly subbed or dubbed by companies, but not by fans, because sometimes unlike fans, the companies actually translate honorifics. And please don't go "if you don't like it, don't watch it" tone on me, because I actually do like watching fansubs, and one of the reasons, is to show them appreciation of them bringing that certain anime to us, and is because of my impatience.

Well... if you're not going to translate honorifics, please add a disclaimer before the episode to what they mean, so the watchers who are watching fansubs (even the ones who don't know Japanese) would know what they mean. Is anyone with me on this, or are you going to want to torture me in a fiery blaze?

Sorry to sound ungreatful here, but seriously... come on...

I actually like it that way. Sorry. I mean I guess this might make you angrier. But if you dont like the way someone subs a series, dont download it. It's simple logic really, I'm not trying to be rude. And good luck, I hope you find a fansub that satisfies you

I'm not trying to be mean here, but like... err...

*reads her post again*

grr... ;;; I'm sorry, everyone.

But... I did ask to put a disclaimer up, if they're going to keep honorifics untranslated like that, no da?

Well I guess the best course of action would be to email the editors/translaters and ask them to do so? All I'm saying is is it's kind of pointless to be upset because these are fansubs afterall and they're going to do what they want.

And i'm sure if you want to learn more it will be on the web somewhere, its not that hard to find. I don't mind not having them there, its kind of something more to read in the subtitles, just hearing it is fine for me.

*momentarily turns into her mother*

Beggars can't be choosers, dear.

*changes back*

Everyone has different tastes about what they like and don't like in anime subbing; unfortunately it's really not up to the people who watch, only truly up to the people that sub them. And politely asking is one thing, but going off on a tangent like this is completely another....especially considering the amount of tension surrounding this particular series here at the moment..

*sighs* That's true... I was a little upset a few minutes ago, and I needed to write something to get it out... I'm sorry, people... *goes to rewrite her post*

There we go. Is that better?

Ok peace...

I like untranslated honorifics.

Why ?

It gives nuances into how the story goes.

For me, the more nuances I can percieve, the deeper the story gets.

So for instance, I'd like to read up a verb ending soon, because they can clue in more nuances.

So, so, so.

Thanks for apologizing, and do please realize that lots of people do like them.

(shouldnt the is be suggestion and comments or general disscusion?)
any ways
Honestly I like them the way they are....I like seeing chan, san, sama, etc...
The main reason is sometimes what people put as the english equivilent , its just kind of annyoing and nonsensical... eg: magic knights... i think it was Umi who put san after everybodys name and the poeple who did it put it as miss... and i just find it odd that you go around calling your friends miss Hikaru and miss Fuu.
i also dont think that chan has a very good english equivelent that can be used all the time....

LOL. "Miss Fuu". Why does that strike me as so hilarious?

But seriously, yeah. It oftentimes is better to leave them untranslated, just depending upon the intent of the person speaking, and the theme of the anime in general. Otherwise, to an english speaker, it seems nonsensical. There aren't always good translations from one language to another, so you just kinda have to adopt that word in question. (for instance, like how many english dialects have adopted the german word "schadenfreude", since literal translation just doesn't convey what it's meant to)

(and yes I realize I proably spelled that incorrectly but I don't speak german nor have a german language keyboard.

Well... maybe I should have added the part where I don't mind if san, chan, kun, and sama would be left untranslated. But everything else like... attack names, and others, I would appreciate if they translate that.

Honorifics do add a bit of nuance into the Japanese culture that gets lost in the translation when they're left out. A few things just seem weird without honorifics, but it's kind of my presonal taste.

Things like "houshi-sama." It's a respect thing. Having it written out as "Lord Monk." or "Sir Monk..." Um... no. Literally translating that would just look... weird. And there really aren't any English equivalents that are appropriate.

On a side note: it slips my mind as to what Sango actually DOES call Miroku in the English dub. I watch it so sporadically now that I don't even remember her calling him anything. What did they translate her "houshi-sama" to, given that in the Japanese version, she's never called him Miroku?

Some honorifics I can imagine just completely being left out in certain situations, and finding some other way to convey the relationship.

---

As for attack names and the like:

Er... well... I guess I'm someone who HAAAAAATES some of the translations for the attacks. Like, Sankontessou into "IRON REAVER SOUL STEALER!" Campy. But then if you translate it literally, it's "soul-scattering iron claws" which sounds... eh, just as weird. So I personally go for untranslated attacks.

...where's that thread where we translated all of the names really literally and saw how funny everything looked? o_O

::huggles Rogue::

I understand you totally, hun, and I agree in all respects. However, I'm afraid I have to go with the 'leave the honorifics alone' notion. Personally, I love seeing them in their original Japanese pronunciation form after their respective names. It's much more appealing to the eye, and the characters' positions become more believable, especially since most anime have primarily Japanese cultural influence, etc. I think to satisfy both parties, in at least one episode there should be a part, e.g. before the credits, where fansubbers list honorifics and their meanings, as well as other cultural references and notings that non-Japanese fans may not understand. What's more, I think honorifics are a simple enough concept for beginners to learn and gradually get used to. This is practically the fastest and easiest lesson in Japanese that I've learned.

[edit] About attack names, etc. I'm going to have to go with 'leave it alone' again. ^^; For one, these names can be explained in advance before appearing in the episode. And as Kuro said, they sound too rediculous when translated literally.

I have to admit... I like the untranslated parts. I like it more when they say hanyou as opposed to half-demon. I like Sankotessou better than Cartoon Network's cheesy saying.

And yeah! I noticed that Sango calls Miroku by his name in the English, as opposed to Houshi-sama. How annoying.

I honestly prefer some stuff untranslated, because it helps me learn some Japanese, since I try to look up the words. And as stated earlier, it provides an additional level of nuance to the anime.

No offense, of course. Everyone has a different preference, after all.

Now lemme get this straight... if some stuff like... attack names and others are said or written in English, it sounds ridiculous, but if it's left untranslated, it sounds all cool and mysterious? =p I don't see why it should bother anyone, because they both mean the same thing

Well, it's because they're actual names, I guess. Not just plain words. Hmm... I don't know if I could explain my preferance right... eh-heh...

It's kinda like translating a name like "Roy" every time you hear it, into something like "Red" or "King." At least, that's kind of how I thought of it. So my preference it partially because, yeah, I think it does sound cooler in Japanese (to me, anyway), but also because it's just a name.

Sankontessou becomes "soul shattering iron claw" because of the kanji it's written in. In reality, it's just a name. Liek Yamaguchi. That means "mountain mouth" if you look at the kanji, but the name is Yamaguchi.

...um, I'm not trying to fight or offend you or anything, just explaining myself.

Don't worry, I'm not offended at all *huggle*

I know what you mean, though ^^

Well, I don't care whether they translate or not. I know what honorific mean, so it doesn't bother me at all.

As for the named attack. Original all the way. As mention before, it doesn't sound or read right when it is translated.

Please, try to put in more examples from the IY. The last few have been a little OT(off-topic).

Alot of the english translations, especially the names of attacks, kind of sound goofy to me. I really like it when there are parts that are left untranslated. Sankontessu as "soul shattering iron claw" is just a little too goofy sounding to me to have the same emphasis as its Japanese counterpart. Thats just the way I look at it.

Companies sub is ALOT worst then fan sub IF you've ever compared them.
"Miroku and his horde of demons are the only ones Stopping Inuyasha"

just gag tha damned bitch....this topic should have never been started...I guess she assumed that people would listen to her bitchy complaints on the internet.....sorry hunny stuff a sock it in....if not something that rhymes with sock....

No kidding, can you imagine when they get to the episode when Inuyasha teaches Souta Sankontessou? That'll be pretty lame with him saying "IRON REAVER SOUL STEALER" and then Souta trying to mimic him. Oi! *mentally smacks Viz around a little for thier big stupid*

ROFLMAO!! Yeah, the first time I heard that I was like, "Huh?......... WHAAaaaaa?!! Miroku?!"

Then they say, "....and maybe a sexual harrassment charge" and I was again stumped. Did they really intend to mistake Miroku as Naraku? .... yeahhhhh.... they are easily mistaken!

Sango: "Naraku-sama, stop rubbing my ass! Aren't you infatuated with Kikyou? Ohhhhh it's you Houshi-sama....." ::SLAP::

Yeah, I've learned a heck of a lot of Japenese, just from watching these. They have Editors Notes during or in the beginning of episodes which were extremely helpful! I mean, I'm not fluent in Japenese now or anything, but compared to what I was before I started watching Fansubs, I'm a genius now!

Keep em as is!

But YEA i like editor notes. EVEN if they only have one WORD every episode its still nice on one sub They said whatever is that and i still remember it

First of all, you're very immature. And two, I ain't complaining, nor am I bitching (well... I'll admit that I was, but I felt bad, and decided to change the post), I was just politely asking, and I was saying my opinion. If you don't like this thread, then don't waste your time insulting the starter, and don't bother wasting your time in going in it.

And to top it all off, you better watch who you're calling people names, because I am not someone you can mess with, and it will come straight back to you.

So anyway, to the important stuff...

I'll admit that I don't mind much if they leave some important honorifics untranslated, but if they at least place a disclaimer before the episode, so people who don't know much Japanese, even to those who aren't very interested in learning the language would know what it means, then it will be very appreciated.

And Starhackz... I honestly will have to disagree with you on that part. Because after I have seen a few episodes of Inu Yasha done by fansubbers, I have found a lot of translation errors, and some spelling errors. Look I know this is all the way back to the episodes which was once aired in the late 90s, but please let me tell you this as an example. Okay you remember the first episode where Inu Yasha has taken the Shikon Jewel, and said "Finally I'll become a real demon", but the fansubbers wrote it as "Finally, I will become a real ghost", and I was like "ehh?" O.o See what I mean, dude? And I remember this one episode where the fansubbers made Inu Yasha say "Don't fuck with me". I can tell right there that it's just an exaggeration. I know Inu Yasha may be Mr. Macho man, but I do know that he wouldn't say something like that. This is pretty much another reason why I don't trust fansubs much, is because certain fansubbers would exaggerate what the characters are saying, and they will write it down on the script on what they want to hear. I don’t mean all fansubbers, I mean some of them.

That is very rude. It may have come across as that to some people, but the replies that follow were good and not rude. Respect people's post.

That's what reliable groups like FGF & AF are for. ^-^

Eee... hope you don't take this the wrong way. Just wanted to point a few things out...


Spelling errors are one thing (which I don't mind as much, I just find them funny sometimes...)

As far as "translation errors" go, though... well, I think as many have said before, there's no right or wrong way to translate something. There's a true, literal translation which often doesn't make much sense unless it's finessed a little toflow better in English.


Didn't VIZ also sub it as "real ghost?" Anyway, what he called himself was "honmono youkai," in Japanese. Honmono means something like "genuine."
Youkai is a word that can kinda be... well, ghost and demon can apply to it, basically. It's a concept, and there's not really an English word with the same connotation other than ghost or demon. Demon gives it a negative connotation, but youkai aren't necessarily as evil as the word demon implies to English-speakers.



It might have not been too eggagerated. Inuyasha uses language that IS relatively abusive and rude in Japanese. And he uses it A LOT. The way he talks is kind of considered profane/rude. It all depends on the attitude the person needs to get across.

For instance, "machiyagare," well, basically that means, "WAIT!" with a very profane feeling of contempt connotated with it. So to get the point across on how strong it is, I might translate it to, (if his voice was really snarling) "Wait a f*cking minute!" or if it wasn't as snarly, "I said WAIT, dammit!"

And Inuyasha says that. A LOT.


Erm... again, my defense for some of the ways people translate.

Okay-
As someone who actually has translated Inuyasha, I suppose I'll jump in here and say my piece real quick (before someone else tries to kill me @_@):

I agree with Rogue.

In a perfect world, I would like to see fansubs without ANY Japanese terms in them. Why? Because fansubs are meant to bring a show to an English-speaking audience, and not everyone is capable of learning three billion Japanese words in order to understand something.

However, there are situations where it's just not appropriate to translate *every* title. We finally broke down and started using a few of them, like -sama for Rin's "Sesshoumaru-sama" and "Jaken-sama". Yes, we *could* probably have her saying "Lord Sesshoumaru" or something of the ilk but...that's just not the right feel. It's hard to explain in English in a paragraph, so you can bet your britches it's hard to explain in a single line of text that has a three second duration. That's why there are some things that we don't translate, but at least they get translation notes.

Also--
Thanks for defending fansubbers, Kuro, but unfortunately there are indeed times when we are wrong. Both professional subbers AND fansubbers make mistakes from time to time--it's just human nature. FGF has made some pretty bone-headed mistakes in the past, whether due to poor editing or mis-translation. (The infamous line where Bankotsu says "Ugh, I feel like I've been hit by a truck!" is one of them ) However, you are right in that it isn't quite as black and white as some people make it out to be.

Actually, I DO know what you mean.

I think I might have misinterpreted Rouge's comment into meaning different ways and styles people use to translate (which I made examples for), rather than true MIS-translations. In that case, I absolutely know and woudl agree with where you're coming from.

I do still stand by my comments about the names, though. This may be another kind of borderline silly example, but I guess to me, since I think of the attack and weapon names as NAMES, it's like translating Inuyasha's name into "Dog Demon" for the sake of making it pure English.

But again, that's just my way of thinking.

I guess in a perfect world, we'd be like Star Trek where we had that Universal Translator and could just... well... KNOW what people are saying despite the language, right?

i acutally prefer preserving hte japanese quality of inuyasha. i dont mind the japanese terms cuz i think it should be that way. I have the highest respect for Japanese animation and I dont mind if they put japanese terms in the subs. In fact, I think the more, the merrirer. I've actually gotten use to lashing at my friends at school when they talk about "dub" inuyasha.

They're saying "Iron Reamer Soul Stealer" (english version for his Sankon Tetsusou attack)
i just say no.. its wrong.. its Sankon Tetsusou... (then i pop them the inuyasha subs and they're like.. Wow! now they say Sankon Tetsusou) XD

besides i'd like to learn more about japanese after all it'll help my understand more anime and i'm going to take a foreign language course on Japanese for college so practicing shouldnt be that bad. XD